Thank you to Marc Rotterman from The Conservative Voice for the following transcript:
Dennis Prager: So Rudy Giuliani, we spoke a little about you and some aspects of you. But let’s get to so me of your political views and so on. You are very strong on the need of America to fight what is called in quotes by opponents the War On Terror. But you believe there really is one?
Rudy Giuliani: Yes, I believe that…not only do I believe there is one, they believe there is one, meaning the terrorists do. I think sometimes, our debate over the War On Terror is almost a little strange, or almost irrelevant. I mean, the reality is, whether we think there’s a war or not, there is. They are at war with us, they’ve been at war with us for a very long time. I see September 11 as the event that woke us up to the fact that they were at war with us. And now, since roughly September 11, President Bush has put us on offense against them. The war was going on before that, but we were on defense. And there are certain forces in this country that want to bring us back to defense, and I think that would be a terrible mistake.
DP: So you don’t think we should leave Iraq?
RG: I think…I don’t think we should leave Iraq, certainly not under the present situation that Iraq is in, and with the consequences that would flow
from leaving Iraq. I think this is a question of if…if we were to walk out of Iraq, it would satisfy a certain degree of public opinion right now, and I think within six months or a year, the people who made that decision would be very much…would regret it, and I think the American people would, because the terrorists understand how important Iraq is. They are putting tremendous resources into defeating us in Iraq. If they defeat us in Iraq, Iran all of a sudden has a very established strong neighbor that’s an ally. You have a place that can be a breeding ground of terrorism. And the reality is, it will make the terrorist movement that much stronger. And I think that we have to figure out, as the President is doing now, I think in a very deliberate way, what’s a better strategy, how do we succeed in Iraq, what can we learn from the mistakes we may have made, and then as we go forward, do a better job of creating a stable situation in Iraq. But the idea of leaving Iraq, I think, is a terrible mistake.
DP: Former President Jimmy Carter has written a book about Israel, calling it an apartheid state, and holding, essentially, that Israel is the source of most of these problems. What is your take on that?
RG: Probably just the opposite. I think obviously, there’s an Israel issue, Palestine and all, but I think that if it didn’t exist, we’d have all the same set of problems. I mean, somehow you can perform the intellectual exercise, let us just say, Israel and Palestine didn’t exist. Or it magically was solved in some way. Every single other issue would be exactly the same. The terrorists would still hate us. September 11 would still have happened. The basic reasons for it are much more fundamental than Israel and Palestine. Israel and Palestine is an important issue. Sometimes, it’s used as an excuse to deal with underlying issues. But the reality here is that the Islamo-fundamentalist terrorists are at war with our way of life, with our modern world, with rights for women, religious freedom, societies that have religious freedom. And all of that would still exist, no matter what happens in Israel and Palestine. It doesn’t mean it wouldn’t be wonderful if you could find a resolution to it, and it wouldn’t defuse things a bit. But we shouldn’t fool ourselves into thinking that it would solve the problem. It wouldn’t.
DP: Let’s go to U.S. domestic issues. Your take on such issues at tax
cuts?
RG: I’m a very big supporter of tax cuts. Not only am I a supporter, I did it. I mean, I’m sort of somebody who learned by…I worked for Ronald Reagan. I
thought that both Ronald Reagan, and before him, President Kennedy, and now President Bush, have kind of proven that tax cuts stimulate an economy. When I became Mayor of New York City, I started to fight very hard for tax cuts in New York City. New York City had really never done tax cuts before. We were sort of a very typical liberal Democratic model of tax in order to solve your budget deficit. And then, you’d very quickly make your budget deficit worse, because businesses would leave. So I began a program of tax reduction. Eventually, I reduced 23 taxes, eliminated some, reduced taxes by $3-4 billion, and I was collecting a lot more money from the lower taxes than I was from the higher ones. I tried to calculate as best I could, reducing the taxes that I thought would have the biggest effect. In other words, those that would stimulate business, the hotel occupancy tax, sales taxes, income taxes, the things that would create more jobs. And it worked. I mean, I can cite chapter and verse on reducing a tax, two years later, collecting more money from the lower taxes than we collected from the higher tax. So I am a very, very big believer that in a complex, private economy, mixed private/government economy like we have, the more money you can put back sensibly into the private economy, the more it’s ultimately going to grow.
DP: On social issues, you’re…they say, whoever they are, that you are more centrist than conservative. So let’s take one of the key ones, same sex marriage.
RG: I’m opposed to same sex marriage. I think marriage has to be between a man and a woman. I think it will be, and it will continue to be. I think what they mean is, that as the Mayor of New York, I was in favor of, and signed into legislation, for civil unions. In New York, they called them domestic partnerships, so that gays and lesbians could have a way in which to protect their rights. And I think that’s an appropriate…that’s the appropriate way in which to do it. I think we should be a society in which government, when it can, sort of extricates itself from people’s personal lives. That’s why I’m in favor of putting more money back in their pockets, so they can spend more money. That’s why I think if you’re gay or lesbian, that’s your life. But you shouldn’t change marriage as a result of it.
DP: These are some of the issues that have prevailed in the American conscience right now. Where do you…let’s get to specifics. Where do you differ most, if you can identify it right now, from John McCain?
RG: I don’t know how I differ from John. I mean, John and I have pretty much the same view on the war, as best I can tell. I mean, I think he is…it may be that I’m more firmly committed to tax cutting than he is, although he has vote for some tax cuts. He hasn’t voted for others. I’m not sure. But John and I are good friends, and if we do end up running against each other, it’ll be interesting to see where and how we differ.
DP: Well, here’s one possibility. My listeners know this, that this is actually rendered him, unfortunately, unvotable for me. And if I have him on, I will tell him that, and that is campaign finance reform, which has ensured that essentially, only multi-millionaires run for office in the United States of America, especially to the Senate, because I cannot…if I, Dennis Prager, who doesn’t have any money, wanted to run, no millionaire could give me a million dollars. They could only give me $4,000 dollars. So you have any views on campaign finance reform?
RG: I think there’s no question that the present McCain-Feingold law has had tremendous loopholes in it, that people have taken advantage of. And it needs to be corrected. It needs to be cured.
DP: So you would like to see it in place as well? You’re also for…
RG: I would like to…but I think, in fairness to Senator McCain, that he has recognized some of the problems that maybe weren’t foreseen in McCain-Feingold, and has promised to try to fix it. I don’t know that that’s happened.
DP: Well, let me then be specific. Why shouldn’t people just be allowed to give any amount of money they want to any candidate, and just have it publicly known? Why should there be a law limiting that freedom?
RG: Well, I mean, there…I think there are very good arguments on either side
of that. I’ve always lived under a campaign finance law that had limitations on
it, so I’m sort of pretty comfortable with it. But the reality is that the
Supreme Court has so far ruled on that, and I guess found McCain-Feingold…
DP: Unfortunately.
RG: …found it Constitutional, although that was a pretty close vote.
DP: All right. We need to spend some time alone together.
RG: But I mean, I grew up in a system in New York where we had campaign finance, and we had matching funds, so I got pretty used to it. But it’s the law, unfortunately, the campaign finance law has become so complex and so difficult.
DP: Like the tax code.
RG: It is easily as complex as the tax code, and it’s become sort of a gotcha game.
DP: All right. Well, I certainly hope that this is the first of many times together on the show. Mayor Rudy Giuliani, thanks for your time.
RG: Thank you very much, Dennis.
DP: You’re very welcome.
RG: Always a pleasure.
DP: Thank you.